Tactic: If the lie is big enough, people will believe it…
There is a famous quote attributed to Goebbels, the late and unlamented Nazi minister of propaganda
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”
This dictum seems to be one that many of the “messianic jews” on Yahoo!Answers have taken to heart. Thus we have them repeating as nauseam the lies that
- I was a long time member of the Church of Scientology
- That I am wanted by the FBI
- That I have been warned by the community to stop opposing them
- That I post on various sites related to drugs etc on the internet.
On a recent question they really outdid themselves with the lying, all the above and more! The question was asked if a “messianic jew” could be buried in a Jewish cemetery. The answer given, and accepted as Best Answer was correct- no, “messianic jews” cannot be buried in Jewish cemeteries. This was when the fun began. The “messianic jews” quickly jumped to try to limit the damage to their movement; they know very well they cannot be buried in Jewish cemeteries, but its a fact they try not to publicise as it would put off many of their potential converts. Thus their lies started:
Lie 1: Adelphi trying to embellish on the lie that the FBI want me, claiming she thought my absence in December was due to me being in FBI custody
Lie 2: Adelphi claiming she doesn’t hate Jews- despite the links having been posted of her quoting anti-semitic websites and calling for the Talmud to be edited
Lie 3: Adelphi trying to claim, again, that she isn’t a “messianic jew” despite the fact that she directly stated she was (as shown in the screenshot hosted on this blog)
Lie 4: Theocrat (a new “messianic jewish” poster) tries to claim that “messianic jews” can be buried in Reform cemetaries, despite the fact that CCAR responsa do NOT allow it, and the Responsa he points to are about the SPOUSES of Jewish members of Reform communities. See the CCAR Responsa here stating that “messianic jews” cannot be buried in Jewish cemeteries.
Lie 5: Claiming I posted on “Mystic Banana”. Once again, just a site copying Q&As from Yahoo!Answers- but they persisted in this lie even after the links to the original Q&As on Yahoo!Answers were posted by me. Original question on Yahoo!Answers
Plagiarised content on “Mystic Banana”
Lie 6: Claiming that the Modern Orthodox position allows for the burial of “messianic jews” in a Jewish cemetery albeit in a set apart area. Their basis for this was an article written by Rabbi Arinna Moon. Of course Arinna Moon is NOT an Orthodox Rabbi (there are no recognised female Rabbi’s in Orthodox). She was trained at a mixed Conservative/Reform seminary and was working as an assistant Rabbi at a Reform Temple at the time she wrote the article. Of course, like the previous quote from a Reform Rabbi, this one misrepresented who she was (claiming she was Orthodox) and what the article said: as with the previous one, talking about the SPOUSES and FAMILIES of Jewish community members, NOT “messianic jews”
Lie 7: Rosh Pina Project (a “messianic jewish website”) made me look like a fool. Heh- actually, after one of their guest authors apologised to me on their website for making false accusations against me, the Rosh Pina Project website owner couldn’t delete anything related to me fast enough from his website! Hosting attacks and slander against me he was fine with- once that failed and his guest author apologised to me, well- that couldn’t remain!
Lie 8: My email address was closed down. Still trying to figure out where this one comes from- my Yahoo!Email address has been going since 2006 and has never been shut down.
Lie 9: I twist the Talmud. Heh- this one is based on the fact that I made an error in a post (which unfortunately I copied into some answers). It has long since been corrected but the “messianic jews” use this one error in an attempt to try to claim I twist the Talmud! Ah well, they’re desperate and will try anything!
Lie 10: Another claim about the “FBI report and me being wanted by them”
Lie 11: I am fugitive fleeing US soil. Seems they don’t understand the concept that I was born in South Africa and have always lived in South Africa. Then again- let’s go back to the Goebels’ quote: it does explain their continued attempt to promulgate this lie
Lie 12: My personal life is a debacle and disaster. Heh, seems they live in some other century where divorce was unknown and a great thing of shame. Its sad, nobody likes it, but it hardly qualifies in the “debacle/disaster” stakes!
Lie 13: I have been “officially warned” to stop what I am doing on Yahoo!Answers.
Lie 14: Claiming I get no income from my job as the spiritual leader of the community I am involved with in Johannesburg (this one in desperation when I pointed out that some of their statements about me were libellous). Unfortunately for them I do get paid by the community.
Lie 15: I posted on “Hemp emporium” (another drug friendly site)- just another Q&A cloned from Yahoo!Answers but even with the link to the original Q&A on YAhoo!Answers posted by me, the “messianic jews” continued to try to push this lie
Lie 16: Linking to Responsa from the Rabbinical Assembly claiming they are Orthodox and allow “messianic jews” to be buried in a Jewish cemetery. However, rabbinical Assembly is CONSERVATIVE. the Responsa in question are here and here. The first conclusion is an outright no, the second allows for it IF there is evidence of last-minute repentance.
Lie 17: I advocate the usage of marijuana. This is based on my supposed post on “Hemp Emporium”. The orginal question on Yahoo!Answers can be found at the plagiarised post at “Hemp Emporium” at As for my so called support of marijuana- here is the statement they are misrepresenting (heh, as is normal for them)
There is no explicit law against it- but it is discouraged, along with smoking, excess alchohol and other things that are bad for the body and mental well being of a person. The reason for thos is that there is a statement from Chazal (the Sages of past generations), that one should keep oneself healthy in order to be able to serve G-d with strength and joy- weakening ones body and mind weakens ones ability to serve G-d in such a manner and thus should be avoided. As such, there are many Orthodox organisations that will help those with addiciton problems- contact your local Jewish authorities and they will direct you to the appropriate people. All anonymously and confidentially.
Then of course there is the latest attack since they now have to deal with the fact that I am paid by the community- accusing me of being an Elmer Gantry. For those who do not know this reference, Elmer Gantry is a character from a book who pretends to be a minister to steal from a community while seducing the women in his congregation. Once again, all it does is how up the lack of moral and ethical fibre within the “messianic Jewish movement, highlighting their willingness to sling insults when they find their lies are no longer working!
Note: There are multiple images of this Q&A due to the many deletions and adding to the comments at the end. One notable deletion was the quick removal of the links to the rabbinical assembly by Adelphi when it was pointed out they are Conservative, despite her claims that they are Orthodox!
Comment: Just continue onwards…
It seems that some people never learn. You expose a tactic, show how they behave, and you would expect them to be more careful. to try to avoid having their dishonesty exposed over and over again. Clearly the “messianic jews” are more interested in how many people they can trick than in portraying their cult in a positive light.
So previously I discussed the usage of multiple accounts, using multiple accounts to attack someone to make yourself seem more authoritative. Heh, and then there was the fact of claiming to want peace while attacking under another ID_ only to mess up. That was with the Shay (now changed to the “AlphaOmega” symbol) and Adelphi. Of course it was protested vehemently; they accused me of manufacturing it, of lying etc despite all evidence to the contrary. So one would imagine that after that she/he (who knows, the user behind these IDs has IDs of both genders) would be more careful and not expose the connection between them. So let us have some fun and shine some light under the rock…
First we have AlphaOmega asking a question on Yahoo!Answers
Then we have a confused Adelphi asking why Yahoo!Answers questions appear elsewhere in this question As seen here
And in that question she links to this post here.
But wait- that is the question that AlphaOmega asked! Heh, of course that is all coincidence, as is the fact that the answers are all identical to the answers in the question!
Of course this displays another facet of the “messianic jews” that has been discussed previously- their usage of attacks on Judaism to try and denigrate Judaism to promote their cult. Multiple correct answers were given- an incorrect anti-Semitic one was chosen. This question portrays yet another facet of the tactics of “messianic jews” in their attacks on Jews- they link to “messianic jewish” priest that dishonestly calls himself a rabbi and then claim it is a Jewish website! Truly, their dishonesty and lack of ethics and morality shine through beautifully in this question!
Tactic: Misquotes, partial quotes and hate mongering
It’s a favourite tactic of hate mongers and rabble rousers everywhere: quote something from the group you are trying to rouse against to show how they terrible they are, or, in the case of the “messianic jews” the additional aim, to show how the Jews agree with what they say. It’s not a new tactic, its been used down the ages and Jews have frequently been the target of such tactics. Probably one of the most known examples of this tactic is the book “The Talmud Unmasked” by the Reverend Parnosis in the 19th century. Much of that, plus some embellishments were utilised by Hoffman in the 1930′s to create hatred of the Jews in the official Nazi party magazine “De Sturmer”. More recently, in the 1980′s and 1990′s, there were the writings of Israel Shahak- a convert to Christianity who published many anti-Semitic books as well as originating a hoax when he claimed that he observed Orthodox Jews refusing to help a Christian on Shabbat and was told by a Rabbi their action was correct. Later he was unable to recall where the incident happened, who the Rabbi was, who the people involved were in fact, when challenged on the story his memory deserted him completely the Israeli Rabbinate produced Rabbinical responsa from the modern era and others dating back to the times of the Talmud to show his lies- yet for some reason anti-Semites still seem to take him at his word.
So into this illustrious company the “messianic jews” of Yahoo! Answers have been joined. The fact that Adelphi under her Shay ID has posted quotes from Reverend Parnosis and from the hate site of “Brother” Knapper has been shown previously so to that we now show how Adelphi (under her new ID butterfly) and “Messianic Jew”- deliberately misquote and lie about the contents of this blog. Yes ladies, gentleman and “messianic jews”- in comments on Yahoo! Answers, the “messianic jews” actually lie about this blog as if I wouldn’t be there to counter their lies!
First we have “messianic jew” I have transcribed what he says in the comments- and the screenshot is below:
Messianic Jew MARK/ALLONYOAVH QUOTE: “There is the principal of Pikuach Nefesh- where to save a life, a soul (note the usage of the term NEFESH here as well!), virtually anything is allowed with the exception of three things: 1) Idolatry, 2) Murder, 3) Sexual immorality (specifically restricted to incest,
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Messianic Jew CONTINUED ALLONYOAVH QUOTE: On top of all this the Torah explicitly states how we deal with the meizid, the one who entices Jews to other religions. It is the only time that a death penalty is applied to a person who is not warned beforehand! In fact, the necessary witnesses can even be hidden and
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Messianic Jew the meizid brought to the place where they can see him and he cannot see them in order that he repeat his enticement to the person, and thus incriminate himself!THE DEATH PENALTY FOR MESSIANICS IS IMPLIED. BE CAREFUL.
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Messianic Jew Mark/Allonyoavh continues ” We must do what is required of us and to work to keep our fellow Jews safe and Jewish! “
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What he is supposedly quoting is from this post- and he deliberately leaves out the fact that the post clearly states this is not applicable in the modern era! Why he does leave it out? because in his hate mongering he is trying to create the impression that this is a hate site and calling for the death of the “messianic jews” (an accusation they have tried to use before to no effect).
Adelphi plays along in an attempt to bolster his hate mongering and states:
ღƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄… Messianic Jew, did you note he uses the same terminology above he did there mentioning the death penalty? Allonyoav quote above
“Nor does it change the fact that they would be considered to be in the category of the MEIZID- and especially hated by the Torah for their acts of enticing Jews away”
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ღƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄… So on these comments he calls me MEIZID and on his blog he says:
“On top of all this the Torah explicitly states how we deal with the meizid, the one who entices Jews to other religions. It is the only time that a death penalty is applied …”
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Of course anyone reading the post would see immediately the way they were twisting and lying about what I said- but then, neither of the two provides a link to the post (heh, undoubtedly they were most upset when I did!)
Then we get Adelphi trying to make it sound like I am sympathetic to the “messianic jews and states in a comment:
One of the most compassionate posts you made was , on your blog, you referred to a difference between Nazis and Messianics. With a heart of love you say “The messianic jews seek our conversion out of a desire to save”us.” How human you sound.
Again no link to the quote- why not? because she would not want people to see what I have actually said: From on this blog in the comments to the article
Personally, I don’t equate the “messianic jewish” desire to convert Jews to the Nazi desire to destroy Jews. Yes, from the standpoint of Judaism their wanting to convert us is worse than the Nazis physical destruction as it results in punishment in this world, and kares in the world to come- however, the motivation is completely different. the Nazi’s sought our destruction and eradication. The “messianic jews” seek our conversion out of a desire to “save” us. They do not realise the spiritual damage and harm they cause to Jews through their actions since Christianity states that we have to be converted for our own good! One cannot equate a desire to destroy something to a desire to save something!
“messianic jew” also tries his hand at misquoting me in supposed support of the same platform as him and “messianic judaism”- only he uses a portion of an answer I gave in Yahoo! answers three years ago
Hey Allonyoav-I agree!You understand! “Mashiach is basically being sent to save us from ourselves, [when we were spiritually decrepit & unworthy]
What was actually stated (in a discussion of the idea of “mashiach ben yosef was)-
What you need to understand is that Judaism does not say there HAS to be the war between Gog ad Magog (what you refer to as Armageddon except in the Jewish version there is no Satan, anti-Christ, horseman or in fact most of what is said in the New Testament in revelations…). The coming of Mashiach can be a number of ways depending on the condition of the world at the time and the spiritual state of the Jews at the time. It is stated that if all Jews were to observe two consecutive Shabbos’ the Mashiach would be instantly revealed and the messianic age started immediately. In that scenario the mashiach ben Yosef would NOT appear at all. Another intermediate scenario is if we are bein yonim (at an intermediate spiritual level- the exact definition of this is actually debated so I’m not going to elaborate on it)- in that scenario the appearance of Mashiach is more gradual and i mashiach ben Yosef may make an appearance as a politician or other similar figure- essentially a pre-cursor that elevates the world so we are heavier on the “good” side. The worst case scenario is when we spiritually decrepit, unworthy and Mashiach is basically being sent to save us from ourselves (kinda along the lines of why God used the years of suffering of Avraham and Sarah (they are considered to have suffered 190 years waiting for the birth of Isaac- thus the 100 years of Age of Avraham at the time plus the Sarah’s 90 years) to count against the years spent in Egypt so he could redeem the Jews earlier). IN that scenario you have the war of Gog and Magog and mashiach ben Yosef is a general/war chief whatever and is most likely the first person to be resurrected when all the dead are brought back to life. However, just to emphasise the point- the two are very close together in time if not continguous and overlapping and Mashiach ben Yosef does not do any of the tasks set aside for Mashiach ben David.
So there you have it- the “messianic jews” showing once again how deceitful they are. How low they will stoop in their attempts to deceive. Once again we see the level of dishonesty and attempted manipulation they will sink to in order to push their point. These examples are easily for me to illustrate- since they were trying to distort my own words! Sadly, they frequently resort to such tactics to try and deceive those who are not so easily able to discern their lies and manipulations
The screenshots:
Misquoting
