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Repentance without Sacrifices

One of the many tactics employed by missionaries, “messianic jewish” or otherwise, is to try and scare the uneducated Jews into converting through claiming that the only means of repentance is through blood sacrifice! Lets look at the reality behind that claim: Even in the days of the temple the sacrifice was for sins done accidentally (korban chatas) or if you were in doubt of you had sinned in a serious manner (korban asham tali). For a deliberate sin there was no sacrifice though many would bring a korban orlah as a voluntary offering when they repented such a deed. The most important aspect of any sacrifice was the INTENTION behind it- no proper repentance, then no amount of sacrifices would help! We see the importance of having the correct intention behind doing anything being stated by Rav Yitzchak Blazer in his introduction to Ohr Yisrael (Rabbi Yisrael Salanter’s book on Mussar) where he starkly states that someone keeping the Torah because they think it is a good idea and does not see it as having come from G-d and therefore does not have the intention to serve G-d in following it, has done nothing! additionally you could only bring a sacrifice for yourself- nobody could make a sacrifice for you. Remember what I said about repentance? Ony you can repent for yourself- nobody can do it for you as how can they have intention for you? (the sacrifices made by the Kohen Gadol on Yom Kippur, such as the scape goat sacrifice were for COMMUNAL sins, not individual sins. The thread changing colour was for the community not the individual see the Talmud, masechta Yoma) Another issue is that of the need for blood, it is NOT required. The Hebrew here is in the passive voice- not the imperative. It is stating ONE of the ways that atonement can be brought about. After all, even when the Temple stood and sacrifices were being offered- it was valid to bring an offering of FLOUR for a sin sacrifice (if you find blood in your flour- time to change where you buy it) and it is the only sin offering where the person bringing it is referred to as “nefesh” showing how this particular sacrifice is so dear to G-d since it is brought with the correct intentions. One way the missionaries try to get around the obvious fact that there is no blood in flour is to claim that the flour was put on top of the bold so it mingled- but that is completely incorrect. Blood was sprinkled on the wall if the altar and dabbed on the karnot (horns) with the rest being poured out at its base- none was actually put onto the main section of the altar where the flour was applied!

Another place we see it is in the half shekel donation given to the Temple every year which the Torah explicitly states is “an atonement for your souls”- no blood there. In the Torah Aaron achieves repentance for the Jews through an incense offering in the camp- no blood again. As for asking for forgiveness- the process is simple (in concept, difficult in reality): Repentance- truly repenting whatever you did and resolving to never do it again Prayer for asking forgiveness from God Restitution to the person you wronged or charity if you acted against the community. And for those who will go on to say I am making this up and it is nowhere in the Tanakh that we can replace sacrifcies with prayer, repentance and charity- here are a few quotes from the Tanakh.

Mishlei (Proverbs) Chapter 21 2. Man’s every way is straight in his own eyes, but the Lord counts the hearts 3. Performing charity and justice is preferred by God to a sacrifice

And in

Hosea Chapter 14 3. Take words with yourselves and return to the Lord. Say, “You shall forgive all iniquity and teach us [the] good [way], and let us render [for] bulls [the offering of] our lips.

And in Divrei Hayamim II (Chronicles II) Chapter 6 39. You shall hear from heaven, from Your dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and You shall forgive Your people who sinned against You. And in

Melachim I (Kings I) Chapter 8 49. And you shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause. מט. 50. And forgive Your people what they have sinned against You, and all their transgressions that they have transgressed against You, and give mercy before their captors, that they may have mercy on them. נ. 51. For they are Your people, and Your inheritance, whom You have taken out of Egypt, from within the smelting furnace of iron. נא. 52. That Your eyes may be open to the supplication of Your servant, and to the supplication of your people Israel, to hearken to them whenever they call to You.

And back to Hosea,

Chapter 6 6. For I desire loving-kindness, and not sacrifices, and knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.


Michah 6 6. With what shall I come before the Lord, bow before the Most High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves? ו. 7. Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with myriad streams of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? ז. 8. He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.

For those wanting to see more about why the location of sacrifices was fixed after the building of the temple see my previous blog post here

Channukah 5773- The lure of the majority

In the text of the Al HaNissim prayer we insert into the Amidah and Birkat HaMazon (Grace after meals) it contains the following text:

In the days of Matityahu, the son of Yochanan the High Priest, the Hasmonean and his sons, when the wicked Hellenic government rose up against Your people Israel to make them forget Your Torah and violate the decrees of Your will.

What did they do? They created a society in which the attractions to a physical lifestyle, the pleasures of the here and now were supreme. This is the siren call of the Yetzer HaRa (evil inclination), it attracts us to the easy and pleasurable, constantly tempting us to err and to follow it. It is the hallmark of the Yetzer HaRa that it is persistent and constantly assailing our desires and inclination towards physicality and pleasure. We see that in this weeks Parsha when the wife of Potiphar is trying to seduce Yosef: she is constantly at him, tempting him, trying to get him to follow physical desire. Yosef is strong enough to resist, many people are not and end up falling for the temptations of the bodies natural inclination to pleasure.

This was the trap of the Greeks, they did not forbid. Instead, the Greek empire had a syncretic model: “We have conquered you, so you should join us, adopt our culture and ways as they have been proven stronger than yours, in return we will incorporate the best parts of your culture into ours and we will all emerge stronger. ”

Thus the hedonistic lifestyle of the Greeks was held out, a temptation to a conquered people, an easy and pleasurable way of life, indulging in the majority culture, integrating and being welcomed by them. The sages teach us that many Jews succumbed at that time, and even after Mattisyahu and the Maccabees defeated the Greeks, Hellenised Jews remained and persisted even into the era of Roman rule over the Jews. The call for Matisyahu to sacrifice a pig in the Temple was not a call by the Greeks to destroy Judaism, but a call to syncretistic, to call the Jews to join the majority, adopt some of their ways and become one with the rest of the Empire.

While the particular aspect of Hellenic culture of the idol worshipping Seleucid Greeks of over 2000 years ago no longer exists, we see descendents of their philosophy today, we see the siren call of the majority, the easy lure of the physical and the abandonment of the spiritual. Those of us who keep Kosher, how often when we are in mixed company, and there is a delightful, non-Kosher spread which everyone but us is enjoying, does someone turn around and say some variation of “Come on, look how good all this is, why not just enjoy it?” Or how many of you when amongst your fellow students (now or when you were younger) would have your non-Jewish or non-observant Jewish friends say “Come on, its going to be a great party tonight, you can be with your family, go to shul etc next Friday night?”

Its simple statements, no malice intended, no conscious call to damage the person’s cnnection to G-d, just friends chatting and wanting to spend time together. Some of us have the strength to say no, others succumb to the siren call, and it goes from one exception, to many exceptions, until one day the person turns around and wonders how they ended up so cut off from Jewish practice. Some may return at that point, others shrug and don’t see any problem with their new lifestyle. This was the dangers of the Greeks, not the outright opposition of the Romans with their laws trying to destroy Judaism, that kind of hard line stance is guaranteed to produce rebels, the way of the Greeks is more subtle, and thus harder to fight against. The sages taught that the army of Matisyahu was tiny, the vast majority comfortable within the Greek Empire. For most, being comfortable within the majority meant they weren’t going to jump into rebellion. This is stated directly in the Al HaNissim prayer

You delivered the mighty into the hands of the weak, the many into the hands of the few, the impure into the hands of the pure, the wicked into the hands of the righteous, and the wanton sinners into the hands of those who occupy themselves with Your Torah.

Today the siren call, the lure to leave Judaism comes strongly from secular culture and from the missionaries in the majority culture around us. most of the time it is easy to spot them, their behaviour obvious and their message clear, “Leave Judaism to become Christian/Muslim/”. Those are easily avoided by those uninterested in their message, even by those who while uneducated in Judaism and unobservant but wishing to retain their Jewish identity. They are the antagonism of the Roman Empire, the obvious message which is easily refuted and which is not attractive to many. On the other hand we have the modern equivalent of the Greek call, the lure of the modern and the majority, the easy life, the acceptance of the accolades of the majority and the acceptance into the majority culture. The “messianic jews” and their ilk represent this stream. They hide their antagonism (or at least most do, anyone who has been on Yahoo!Answers will be aware of the animosity and hostility of the “messianic jews” against those who reveal the truth about them) and their siren call is one to find a way to be accepted into the majority culture by accepting a syncretic religion.

The message of the “messianic jews” is no less false than that of the ancient Greeks; the polytheism of the trinity and an opposing spiritual entity (the devil) no less than the polytheism of the ancient Greeks, yet the “messianic jews” would like their victims to believe that miraculously their attempt to syncretise Judaism into their polytheistic faith is somehow more acceptable than any other attempt. Yes, for those that are educated the deceit is easy to spot and ignore, for the uneducated, as in the time of Matisyahu and the Hasmoneans, the deceit is not as easy to spot. Matisyahu could take up the sword against the Greeks, our tool is the pen, education. Our weapon in combatting the lure of the deceit of the modern-day Greeks manifested in the “messianic jews” is the truth, the dissemination of knowledge to those at risk. For us, the internet can be a tool to fight the lies and deceit, to reveal the hidden pig waiting to be sacrificed on the altar of the Temple, the polytheistic message of the “messianic jews” they try to behind altered terminology and using Hebrew terms to replace familiar English ones.

This Channukah, let us all undertake to undertake the education of our fellow Jews, to spread knowledge that will illuminate, that like the lights of the Chanukiah we will light for the 8 nights of Channukiah will dance before them and open their eyes to the true beauty of Judaism and counter the false message of the dishonest missionaries in “messianic judaism”

Information: The location of sacrifices

Some of the “messianic jews” when attacking Judaism like to claim that we don’t follow the Torah because we don’t offer sacrifices anymore. They claim that the Rabbi’s just wanted to grab power for themselves and thus removed sacrifices, made up the excuse that sacrifices have to be offered in the Temple, and then stopped the rebuilding of the Temple. One of the things they try to bring to show they are right is the fact that Moses offered sacrifices in the desert. So, let us look at what the Torah and Tanakh have to say on this topic.

Vayikra (Leviticus)
Chapter 1
3. If his sacrifice is a burnt offering from cattle, an unblemished male he shall bring it. He shall bring it willingly to the entrance of the Tent of Meeting, before the Lord. ג. אִם עֹלָה קָרְבָּנוֹ מִן הַבָּקָר זָכָר תָּמִים יַקְרִיבֶנּוּ אֶל פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד יַקְרִיב אֹתוֹ לִרְצֹנוֹ לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה:

5. And he shall slaughter the young bull before the Lord. And Aaron’s descendants, the kohanim, shall bring the blood, and dash the blood upon the altar, around [the altar] which is at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting. ה. וְשָׁחַט אֶת בֶּן הַבָּקָר לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה וְהִקְרִיבוּ בְּנֵי אַהֲרֹן הַכֹּהֲנִים אֶת הַדָּם וְזָרְקוּ אֶת הַדָּם עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ סָבִיב אֲשֶׁר פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד:

Chapter 3
2. And he shall lean his hand [forcefully] upon the head of his sacrifice and slaughter it at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting. And Aaron’s descendants, the kohanim, shall dash the blood upon the altar, around. ב. וְסָמַךְ יָדוֹ עַל רֹאשׁ קָרְבָּנוֹ וּשְׁחָטוֹ פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד וְזָרְקוּ בְּנֵי אַהֲרֹן הַכֹּהֲנִים אֶת הַדָּם עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ סָבִיב:

8. And he shall lean his hand [forcefully] upon the head of his sacrifice, and slaughter it before the Tent of Meeting. And Aaron’s descendants shall dash its blood upon the altar, around. ח. וְסָמַךְ אֶת יָדוֹ עַל רֹאשׁ קָרְבָּנוֹ וְשָׁחַט אֹתוֹ לִפְנֵי אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד וְזָרְקוּ בְּנֵי אַהֲרֹן אֶת דָּמוֹ עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ סָבִיב:

13. and he shall lean his hand [forcefully] upon its head and slaughter it before the Tent of Meeting, and Aaron’s descendants shall dash its blood upon the altar, around. יג. וְסָמַךְ אֶת יָדוֹ עַל רֹאשׁוֹ וְשָׁחַט אֹתוֹ לִפְנֵי אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד וְזָרְקוּ בְּנֵי אַהֲרֹן אֶת דָּמוֹ עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ סָבִיב:

Chapter 4
4. And he shall bring the bull to the entrance of the Tent of Meeting before the Lord, and he shall lean his hand [forcefully] upon the bull’s head and slaughter the bull before the Lord. ד. וְהֵבִיא אֶת הַפָּר אֶל פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה וְסָמַךְ אֶת יָדוֹ עַל רֹאשׁ הַפָּר וְשָׁחַט אֶת הַפָּר לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה:

7. And the kohen shall place some of the blood on the horns of the incense altar which is in the Tent of Meeting, before the Lord, and he shall pour all the blood of the bull onto the base of the altar [used] for burnt offerings, which is at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting. ז. וְנָתַן הַכֹּהֵן מִן הַדָּם עַל קַרְנוֹת מִזְבַּח קְטֹרֶת הַסַּמִּים לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֲשֶׁר בְּאֹהֶל מוֹעֵד וְאֵת כָּל דַּם הַפָּר יִשְׁפֹּךְ אֶל יְסוֹד מִזְבַּח הָעֹלָה אֲשֶׁר פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד:

14. When the sin which they had committed becomes known, the congregation shall bring a young bull as a sin offering. They shall bring it before the Tent of Meeting. יד. וְנוֹדְעָה הַחַטָּאת אֲשֶׁר חָטְאוּ עָלֶיהָ וְהִקְרִיבוּ הַקָּהָל פַּר בֶּן בָּקָר לְחַטָּאת וְהֵבִיאוּ אֹתוֹ לִפְנֵי אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד:

16. The anointed kohen shall bring some of the bull’s blood into the Tent of Meeting, טז. וְהֵבִיא הַכֹּהֵן הַמָּשִׁיחַ מִדַּם הַפָּר אֶל אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד:

18. And he shall then place some of the blood on the horns of the altar that is before the Lord in the Tent of Meeting. And then he shall pour all the blood onto the base of the altar [used] for burnt offerings, which is at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. יח. וּמִן הַדָּם יִתֵּן עַל קַרְנֹת הַמִּזְבֵּחַ אֲשֶׁר לִפְנֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֲשֶׁר בְּאֹהֶל מוֹעֵד וְאֵת כָּל הַדָּם יִשְׁפֹּךְ אֶל יְסוֹד מִזְבַּח הָעֹלָה אֲשֶׁר פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד:

I could go on like this through the book of Vayikra, and show others from Devarim, but the point has been made. Sacrifices in the desert (and before the building of the Temple) had to be made at the tent of meeting by the Kohanim (Aharon and his descendants)- i.e. the Mishkan. Before that they could be made anywhere. Since Moshe only offered sacrifices before the investure of Aharon and his sons, these laws never applied until they became relevant.

Hmm, but why do we say this is the only place they could be offered? Perhaps they could be offered elsewhere as well and this was just the best case scenario and preferred method rather than the only method? To teach us otherwise the Torah states:

Vayikra Chapter 17
3. Any man of the House of Israel, who slaughters an ox, a lamb, or a goat inside the camp, or who slaughters outside the camp, ג. אִישׁ אִישׁ מִבֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁחַט שׁוֹר אוֹ כֶשֶׂב אוֹ עֵז בַּמַּחֲנֶה אוֹ אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁחַט מִחוּץ לַמַּחֲנֶה:
4. but does not bring it to the entrance of the Tent of Meeting to offer up as a sacrifice to the Lord before the Mishkan of the Lord, this [act] shall be counted for that man as blood he has shed blood, and that man shall be cut off from among his people; ד. וְאֶל פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד לֹא הֱבִיאוֹ לְהַקְרִיב קָרְבָּן לַי־הֹוָ־ה לִפְנֵי מִשְׁכַּן יְ־הֹוָ־ה דָּם יֵחָשֵׁב לָאִישׁ הַהוּא דָּם שָׁפָךְ וְנִכְרַת הָאִישׁ הַהוּא מִקֶּרֶב עַמּוֹ:

8. And you should say to them: Any man of the House of Israel or of the strangers who will sojourn among them, who offers up a burnt offering or [any other] sacrifice, ח. וַאֲלֵהֶם תֹּאמַר אִישׁ אִישׁ מִבֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל וּמִן הַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר יָגוּר בְּתוֹכָם אֲשֶׁר יַעֲלֶה עֹלָה אוֹ זָבַח:
9. but does not bring it to the entrance of the Tent of Meeting to make it [a sacrifice] to the Lord, that man shall be cut off from his people. ט. וְאֶל פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד לֹא יְבִיאֶנּוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת אֹתוֹ לַי־הֹוָ־ה וְנִכְרַת הָאִישׁ הַהוּא מֵעַמָּיו:

So before the Temple was built it seems unequivocal that sacrifices had to be brought to the Mishkan to be offered. How do we know this sanctity transferred to the Temple, and more importantly, how do we know the Temple has to be built in a specific place and thus why we cannot just rebuild it somewhere else?

First we have King David being ordered to build it in a specific area

Divrei HaYamim (Chronicles) 1 ch 21
18. And the angel of the Lord said to Gad to say to David that David should go up to erect an altar to the Lord in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite. יח וּמַלְאַךְ יְהוָה אָמַר אֶל-גָּד, לֵאמֹר לְדָוִיד: כִּי יַעֲלֶה דָוִיד, לְהָקִים מִזְבֵּחַ לַיהוָה, בְּגֹרֶן, אָרְנָן הַיְבֻסִי.
19. And David went up according to the word of Gad that he spoke in the name of the Lord. יט. וַיַּעַל דָּוִיד בִּדְבַר-גָּד, אֲשֶׁר דִּבֶּר בְּשֵׁם יְהוָה.
20. And Ornan returned and saw the angel, and his four sons who were with him hid themselves, and Ornan was threshing wheat. כ. וַיָּשָׁב אָרְנָן, וַיַּרְא אֶת-הַמַּלְאָךְ, וְאַרְבַּעַת בָּנָיו עִמּוֹ, מִתְחַבְּאִים; וְאָרְנָן, דָּשׁ חִטִּים.
21. And David came up to Ornan, and Ornan looked and saw David, and he went forth from the threshing-floor, and he bowed down to David with his face to the ground. כא. וַיָּבֹא דָוִיד, עַד-אָרְנָן; וַיַּבֵּט אָרְנָן, וַיַּרְא אֶת-דָּוִיד, וַיֵּצֵא מִן-הַגֹּרֶן, וַיִּשְׁתַּחוּ לְדָוִיד אַפַּיִם אָרְצָה.
22. And David said to Ornan, “Give me the place of the threshing-floor, so that I may build thereon an altar to the Lord; give it to me for the full price, so that the plague be stayed from the people.” כב. וַיֹּאמֶר דָּוִיד אֶל-אָרְנָן, תְּנָה-לִּי מְקוֹם הַגֹּרֶן, וְאֶבְנֶה-בּוֹ מִזְבֵּחַ, לַיהוָה; בְּכֶסֶף מָלֵא תְּנֵהוּ לִי, וְתֵעָצַר הַמַּגֵּפָה מֵעַל הָעָם.
23. And Ornan said to David, “Take for yourself, and may my lord the king do what seems good in his eyes. See, I have given the cattle for burnt offerings, and the threshing tools for [fire] wood, and the wheat for a meal offering; I have given everything.” כג. וַיֹּאמֶר אָרְנָן אֶל-דָּוִיד קַח-לָךְ, וְיַעַשׂ אֲדֹנִי הַמֶּלֶךְ הַטּוֹב בְּעֵינָיו; רְאֵה נָתַתִּי הַבָּקָר לָעֹלוֹת, וְהַמּוֹרִגִּים לָעֵצִים וְהַחִטִּים לַמִּנְחָה–הַכֹּל נָתָתִּי.
24. And King David said to Ornan, “No, for I will buy [it] for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the Lord, and offer up burnt offerings for nothing.” כד. וַיֹּאמֶר הַמֶּלֶךְ דָּוִיד, לְאָרְנָן, לֹא, כִּי-קָנֹה אֶקְנֶה בְּכֶסֶף מָלֵא: כִּי לֹא-אֶשָּׂא אֲשֶׁר-לְךָ, לַיהוָה, וְהַעֲלוֹת עוֹלָה, חִנָּם.
25. And David gave to Ornan for the place shekels of gold weighing six hundred. כה. וַיִּתֵּן דָּוִיד לְאָרְנָן, בַּמָּקוֹם, שִׁקְלֵי זָהָב, מִשְׁקָל שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת.
26. And David built an altar there to the Lord, and he offered up burnt offerings and peace offerings, and he called out to the Lord, and He answered him with fire from heaven on the altar of the burnt offerings. וַיִּבֶן שָׁם דָּוִיד מִזְבֵּחַ לַיהוָה, וַיַּעַל עֹלוֹת וּשְׁלָמִים; וַיִּקְרָא, אֶל-יְהוָה, וַיַּעֲנֵהוּ בָאֵשׁ מִן-הַשָּׁמַיִם, עַל מִזְבַּח הָעֹלָה.

Then King Solomon build the Temple in the specified area

Divrei Hayamim II
Chapter 3
1. And Solomon commenced to build the House of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where He had appeared to his father David, which he had prepared in David’s place, in the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. א וַיָּחֶל שְׁלֹמֹה, לִבְנוֹת אֶת-בֵּית-יְהוָה בִּירוּשָׁלִַם, בְּהַר הַמּוֹרִיָּה, אֲשֶׁר נִרְאָה לְדָוִיד אָבִיהוּ–אֲשֶׁר הֵכִין בִּמְקוֹם דָּוִיד, בְּגֹרֶן אָרְנָן הַיְבוּסִי.

Then we have G-d appearing to King Solomon to bless him and declare that he had chosen the area thus sanctifying it

Chapter 7
12. And the Lord appeared to Solomon at night, and He said to him, “I have heard your prayer, and I have chosen this place for Myself for a House of sacrifice. יב. וַיֵּרָא יְהוָה אֶל-שְׁלֹמֹה, בַּלָּיְלָה; וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ, שָׁמַעְתִּי אֶת-תְּפִלָּתֶךָ, וּבָחַרְתִּי בַּמָּקוֹם הַזֶּה לִי, לְבֵית זָבַח.

and then we have the statement that this was an eternal statute for where the Temple had to stand

16. And now, I have chosen and consecrated this House that My name be there forever, and My eyes and heart will be there at all times טז וְעַתָּה, בָּחַרְתִּי וְהִקְדַּשְׁתִּי אֶת-הַבַּיִת הַזֶּה, לִהְיוֹת-שְׁמִי שָׁם, עַד-עוֹלָם; וְהָיוּ עֵינַי וְלִבִּי שָׁם, כָּל-הַיָּמִים.

So, David chose the spot, Solomon built on the spot and then G-d said that would be the spot forever! So, once G-d has said that is the spot forever, its not exactly like we have the right to go against a direct statement by G-d for our convenience!

What this discussion does display very clearly is the fact that the “messianic jews” despite claiming to be knowledgeable in the Torah and Jewish beliefs clearly are ignorant in both! None of this is hidden, esoteric, hidden away or difficult to find. Anyone knowledgeable in Tanakh would have read these and understood their implications; thus this illustrates that the “messianic jews” are not knowledgeable and have little to no understanding of what is taught in the Torah, Nevi’im and Ketuvim